I understand every instance of criticism that Mike Pence has endured in these comments. I won’t refute any of your arguments, but would ask you to consider one question. Are you better, really?…or only as you frame it?
At this time, I respect Mike Pence more than I ever have. He is on my top five list of “conservatives” or conservatives I would like to down a few beers with as they get drunk enough to be totally honest with me. And I would ask him many questions, but they would be respectful.
I have a conservative view of government and its relationship with the individual and I have many conflicts with his social positions. But he and I are firmly aligned on my priority, it appears. Should I not applaud him for this fact?
IMHO, he abandoned many of his principles and entered the death spiral of rationalization that so many do in politics today. Once rationalized, how many ever question, certainly name one that has exited.
So how could he ever exit the spiral, and do the right thing in any instance? But he did. I want to understand this.
Why did he not reject the legally verified electors? He should have. He was already in a state of rationalization. He had some lawyers telling him it was okay. He had his boss telling him it was okay. It appears that he had random members of congress telling him it was okay. A bunch of people in various and diverse states signed fake elector slates, also telling him it was okay. If we had travelled this far, I think most would have gone along with more rationalization to protect confronting our past justifications.
But somehow, in the midst of this death spiral, Pence’s principles became the primary motive. And I want to know – HOW? I want to be able to do that, if I get sucked into the black hole of rationalization.
Some will tell me, his life was threatened and it shocked him out. I would reply - he had to understand that was a consequence his actions would incur ahead of time, as all his actions appear very deliberately slow and decided in this instance, and yet, he still chose to take them. Yeah, sure, this may have restored or validated his restored principles to himself. But still there is a reemergence of principles that I believe most of us would not have experienced.
I think Pence was very far down the spiral and pulled out. He may not benefit from doing so publicly, but I think he has a lot of individual satisfaction and personal power from doing so. I am not sure, that I had gone as far as he did, that I could have pulled back. If you have no issue that you would, I encourage personal reflection.
I want to know how he did so, and I think a failure to recognize this rarity is a missed opportunity..
Just a question. Why would the charging documents against Trump need to take place in Florida? I have been following this since day one. Numerous sources are saying Trump broke the Espionage Act. He would probably be charged with obstruction of justice. So why Florida? Sure he lives there, but any crimes are in relation to him being President
"And let me also say, I think it would also send a terrible message to the wider world. I mean, we’re the emblem of democracy, we’re the symbol of justice in the world, and the serious matter—which has already happened once in New York—of indicting a former president of the United States sends a terrible message to the world."
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Mr Pence's pusillanimous quote is the diametric opposite of the concept of American justice. The Declaration of Independence declares that "all men are created equal," and this includes a disgraced former POTUS. The ultimate statement that we can send the world about democracy is that we don't exclude anyone from our criminal justice system, rank does *not* carry privileges not available to the common person.
An indictment of TFG is apparently warranted. He will get his day in court like any other American. And when he is found guilty by a jury of his peers he will receive a just punishment - like any other American can expect when they are found guilty of blatantly violating the laws of our land.
I do so look forward to seeing the Tangerine Tyrant in a BOP jumpsuit that clashes with his "natural" color.
Gorka apparently has not read the Constitution, which is not surprising for these MAGA idiots. They always use the Constitution to support whatever idiotic claim they're making but have no earthly idea what it actually says. And yet, a large percentage of this country's citizens support them. Scary shit indeed.
No one is above the law except Trump and Trump should never again be president unless he is the nominee. Mike Pence still being as nothing as always. I don't know why he gets as much publicity as he does since he never says anything. And Pence did not do a good thing on Jan. 6. He just didn't do a bad thing. There's a lot of difference there. He was pressured to do the bad thing and stood against it, but he didn't do something astounding or amazing when he did his job.
Pence: "And let me also say, I think it would also send a terrible message to the wider world. I mean, we’re the emblem of democracy, we’re the symbol of justice in the world, and the serious matter—which has already happened once in New York—of indicting a former president of the United States sends a terrible message to the world. I hope the DOJ thinks better of it and resolves these issues without an indictment."
Let's break this down:
1) U.S. is supposedly THE emblem of democracy AND the symbol of "justice in the world" (I'm pretty sure that the citizens of developed countries would vehemently disagree with this statement).
2) Indicting former Presidents is bad.
3) Indicting a former President "sends a terrible message to the world."
How exactly? So in Pence's twisted logic, proving to the world that former Presidents of the United States are NOT immune for being prosecuted for crimes they committed out in the open, would send the world the "wrong message."
Sooooo Pence would prefer prosecutors ignore his crimes? That would send a BETTER message out to the world?
It is possible that he wanted to push back and isolate the bolshevik caucus. These are not charming people -- they are loud, pushy, vulgar assholes whose self-regard and sense of entitlement has inflated to the point that it blots out the sun. I daresay a significant majority of their colleagues on the R side of the aisle are getting heartily sick and tired of them. I know I would resent having to maintain a frozen smile and share air with the likes of MJT and Chip Roy et al,, regardless of policy agreement. To the extent there is any policy among them to agree or disagree with. And it can't be pleasant to know that the likes of MJT and Lauren Bobblehead come to mind when normal Americans think of a Republican congressperson.
I don't think you have to grant McCarthy the status of 5 dimensional chess master to suppose he understood that possibly the power and sway of the Taliban Twenty depended as much on a priori expectation of invulnerability as on actual numbers and influence. So not only would the Speaker potentially gain by showing them not to be invincible supermen and women, the vote would also be an opportunity to enjoy just poking them in the eye and pop their bubble a little.
It is also possible, though all evidence heretofore has pointed in the other direction, that McCarthy actually did not want to destroy the United States of America and turn it entirely into a one-party state ruled by a gang of irrational, malicious, wannabe Caligulas.
Honestly, Pence could not even get through what two days. The worst thing he said was about the message that indicting t**** would send to the world. The message it sends is exactly right NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Presidents should not behave like t**** and his behavior on Jan 6, the dereliction of duty alone should disqualify him from ever serving in any capacity ever again. The only candidate to give an answer that was remotely sane was Hutchinson and he has as much chance of being the republican nominee as I do.
Is what Tucker said really shocking though? If you didn't know he had been fired by Fox, and you just said that he said XYZ on his show, wouldn't that be PERFECTLY in line with what he would say on Fox's air?
As for Trump, there is a small part of me that wants him to be indicted, and for him to stay in the race anyway. Cause if he does, the rest (probably) will too, just to see what happens to the field when/if he is found guilty.
How long do these kinds of cases take anyway? Is this going to be a race to see if he can be found guilty before he could potentially win and pardon himself?
I understand every instance of criticism that Mike Pence has endured in these comments. I won’t refute any of your arguments, but would ask you to consider one question. Are you better, really?…or only as you frame it?
At this time, I respect Mike Pence more than I ever have. He is on my top five list of “conservatives” or conservatives I would like to down a few beers with as they get drunk enough to be totally honest with me. And I would ask him many questions, but they would be respectful.
I have a conservative view of government and its relationship with the individual and I have many conflicts with his social positions. But he and I are firmly aligned on my priority, it appears. Should I not applaud him for this fact?
IMHO, he abandoned many of his principles and entered the death spiral of rationalization that so many do in politics today. Once rationalized, how many ever question, certainly name one that has exited.
So how could he ever exit the spiral, and do the right thing in any instance? But he did. I want to understand this.
Why did he not reject the legally verified electors? He should have. He was already in a state of rationalization. He had some lawyers telling him it was okay. He had his boss telling him it was okay. It appears that he had random members of congress telling him it was okay. A bunch of people in various and diverse states signed fake elector slates, also telling him it was okay. If we had travelled this far, I think most would have gone along with more rationalization to protect confronting our past justifications.
But somehow, in the midst of this death spiral, Pence’s principles became the primary motive. And I want to know – HOW? I want to be able to do that, if I get sucked into the black hole of rationalization.
Some will tell me, his life was threatened and it shocked him out. I would reply - he had to understand that was a consequence his actions would incur ahead of time, as all his actions appear very deliberately slow and decided in this instance, and yet, he still chose to take them. Yeah, sure, this may have restored or validated his restored principles to himself. But still there is a reemergence of principles that I believe most of us would not have experienced.
I think Pence was very far down the spiral and pulled out. He may not benefit from doing so publicly, but I think he has a lot of individual satisfaction and personal power from doing so. I am not sure, that I had gone as far as he did, that I could have pulled back. If you have no issue that you would, I encourage personal reflection.
I want to know how he did so, and I think a failure to recognize this rarity is a missed opportunity..
Trump has just been indicted.
I'm confident that Pat Robertson has received a very warm welcome, wherever he is. 😈
Just a question. Why would the charging documents against Trump need to take place in Florida? I have been following this since day one. Numerous sources are saying Trump broke the Espionage Act. He would probably be charged with obstruction of justice. So why Florida? Sure he lives there, but any crimes are in relation to him being President
“MAGA-geddon” hahahaha
"And let me also say, I think it would also send a terrible message to the wider world. I mean, we’re the emblem of democracy, we’re the symbol of justice in the world, and the serious matter—which has already happened once in New York—of indicting a former president of the United States sends a terrible message to the world."
-----
Mr Pence's pusillanimous quote is the diametric opposite of the concept of American justice. The Declaration of Independence declares that "all men are created equal," and this includes a disgraced former POTUS. The ultimate statement that we can send the world about democracy is that we don't exclude anyone from our criminal justice system, rank does *not* carry privileges not available to the common person.
An indictment of TFG is apparently warranted. He will get his day in court like any other American. And when he is found guilty by a jury of his peers he will receive a just punishment - like any other American can expect when they are found guilty of blatantly violating the laws of our land.
I do so look forward to seeing the Tangerine Tyrant in a BOP jumpsuit that clashes with his "natural" color.
fnord
Fill in the blanks:
Tucker hates _____, _____, _____, and _____.
Additional answers are acceptable. Spacer permitting.
Note: No credit will be give for "himself". That answer is patently obvious.
Anyone know where Pat Robertson will be buried? It's on my list of graves that should serve a secondary function as public urinals.
Gorka apparently has not read the Constitution, which is not surprising for these MAGA idiots. They always use the Constitution to support whatever idiotic claim they're making but have no earthly idea what it actually says. And yet, a large percentage of this country's citizens support them. Scary shit indeed.
No one is above the law except Trump and Trump should never again be president unless he is the nominee. Mike Pence still being as nothing as always. I don't know why he gets as much publicity as he does since he never says anything. And Pence did not do a good thing on Jan. 6. He just didn't do a bad thing. There's a lot of difference there. He was pressured to do the bad thing and stood against it, but he didn't do something astounding or amazing when he did his job.
Pence: "And let me also say, I think it would also send a terrible message to the wider world. I mean, we’re the emblem of democracy, we’re the symbol of justice in the world, and the serious matter—which has already happened once in New York—of indicting a former president of the United States sends a terrible message to the world. I hope the DOJ thinks better of it and resolves these issues without an indictment."
Let's break this down:
1) U.S. is supposedly THE emblem of democracy AND the symbol of "justice in the world" (I'm pretty sure that the citizens of developed countries would vehemently disagree with this statement).
2) Indicting former Presidents is bad.
3) Indicting a former President "sends a terrible message to the world."
How exactly? So in Pence's twisted logic, proving to the world that former Presidents of the United States are NOT immune for being prosecuted for crimes they committed out in the open, would send the world the "wrong message."
Sooooo Pence would prefer prosecutors ignore his crimes? That would send a BETTER message out to the world?
It is possible that he wanted to push back and isolate the bolshevik caucus. These are not charming people -- they are loud, pushy, vulgar assholes whose self-regard and sense of entitlement has inflated to the point that it blots out the sun. I daresay a significant majority of their colleagues on the R side of the aisle are getting heartily sick and tired of them. I know I would resent having to maintain a frozen smile and share air with the likes of MJT and Chip Roy et al,, regardless of policy agreement. To the extent there is any policy among them to agree or disagree with. And it can't be pleasant to know that the likes of MJT and Lauren Bobblehead come to mind when normal Americans think of a Republican congressperson.
I don't think you have to grant McCarthy the status of 5 dimensional chess master to suppose he understood that possibly the power and sway of the Taliban Twenty depended as much on a priori expectation of invulnerability as on actual numbers and influence. So not only would the Speaker potentially gain by showing them not to be invincible supermen and women, the vote would also be an opportunity to enjoy just poking them in the eye and pop their bubble a little.
It is also possible, though all evidence heretofore has pointed in the other direction, that McCarthy actually did not want to destroy the United States of America and turn it entirely into a one-party state ruled by a gang of irrational, malicious, wannabe Caligulas.
Honestly, Pence could not even get through what two days. The worst thing he said was about the message that indicting t**** would send to the world. The message it sends is exactly right NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Presidents should not behave like t**** and his behavior on Jan 6, the dereliction of duty alone should disqualify him from ever serving in any capacity ever again. The only candidate to give an answer that was remotely sane was Hutchinson and he has as much chance of being the republican nominee as I do.
Tucker Carlson is an enemy of America.
Tucker must be channeling Goebbels and Streicher to write his scripts.
Is what Tucker said really shocking though? If you didn't know he had been fired by Fox, and you just said that he said XYZ on his show, wouldn't that be PERFECTLY in line with what he would say on Fox's air?
As for Trump, there is a small part of me that wants him to be indicted, and for him to stay in the race anyway. Cause if he does, the rest (probably) will too, just to see what happens to the field when/if he is found guilty.
How long do these kinds of cases take anyway? Is this going to be a race to see if he can be found guilty before he could potentially win and pardon himself?