Why the Dems have to move to the center, Chapter 18,898---
This is probably the most tiresome song getting played over and over again on "The Bulwark".
In the first place it is already too late to tack FURTHER to the center in any convincing manner. The entire Biden agenda that has so far passed in Congress is almost entirely centrist... and yet no matter how often this is pointed out it isn't enough to overcome the creeping socialism canard.
The culture war issues being battled are mostly state and local issues--- and if leftists in Portland are somehow the problem of moderate Democrats in Virginia there is nothing to be done.
In the second place it really doesn't matter--- Democrats could go to the center right of Joe Manchin and they would still be misrepresented as communists, socialists, baby eating transgender lesbians by the GOP and half the country has already accepted that as true.
So the ONLY issue that needs to be decided is whether or not this country remains a democracy or becomes Hungary and Poland. IF white suburban voters are more concerned about inflation than preserving democracy then LET them vote Republican.
Dem problem is not insufficient policy centrism. Majority of Dem supporters I know are centrist to just a bit leftward. No amount of policy moderation will make any difference. The problems are (a) politically incompetent leadership that is too beholden to hard-liberal major donors, (b) excessive media attention to bright-shiny-object backbenchers like AOC who represent party fringes, (c) inability to forcefully articulate longtime shared community values, and (d) the ability of the right-wing-noise-machine to absolutely dominate agenda-setting. The complicity of the mainstream media in the RWNM's painting the Squad as the party leadership is breathtaking.
The whole move to the center thing is getting super tiresome... the actual centrist party of the country (the one without the whacko conspiracy theorists and election-deniers and fascist-wanna-be's) needs to move the where they pretty much already are?
As JVL has noted, it isn't policy that is deciding the midterms. The Democrats are the party of actual sanity (despite the rhetoric that you sometimes get from it's own subset of whackos--who strangely rarely seem to get what they want)--but people won't vote for them because of Identity or BS reasons cooked up to make it look like they are not voting identity.
Nobody ACTAULLY cares about results (else the Democrats would be walking all over the GoP), they only really care about their grievances, anger, and fear.
Give us a break, eh? I mean I am not and never have been a Democrat and even I am tired of this.
What is so bad about Justice KBJ that would make these Republicans walk out during this ceremony? Why are they so mad, with their 6-3 majority intact no matter what? Why try to outdo one another in performative scumbaggery like this? It's really hard to see the good in my fellow Americans who vote for this kind of trash, because they hate Democrats so much more for some reason.
Republicans' actions are a reflection of what they think their voters want. They show disrespect because they think their base will reward them for it. They have no policy because they think their voters have no interest in it. They are right about both. Democrats need to point the following out to Republican voters: Republicans behave like assholes because they think you are a bunch of people whom mom didn't raise right. Republicans have no agenda because they think you are too unserious and dim to comprehend or engage in political discussion. Republicans treat you like children, and it's time to wake up to that fact. Calling half of Trump voters a basket of deplorables feels pretty good, and it's hard for me to argue its accuracy, but it's very counterproductive, as 2016 showed. Democrats need to run some sort of campaign strategy that will red pill these Republican voters who are constantly disrespected by their representatives, and taken for marks and idiots. Republicans will say anything to their voters, because they think they'll believe it.
The center is not fixed. Charlie and company are advocating for the Dems to be to the right HW and Dick Nixon on some issues. That's not how you win elections
Dems think "moving to the center" translates to "ignore the culture war, focus on policy issues" instead of "move to the center on culture war issues, hammer the other party with voter wedges that center around moral ineptitude." By ignoring the culture wars, by ignoring the necessity to message on *everything always*, by focusing on policy fights over the national identity fight, the dems are basically giving the GOP their mid-term gains on a silver platter. And FOR GODS SAKE get rid of all the old politicians with 20 years of legislative baggage who couldn't message if their lives depended on it and start building a deep bench of young fighters. STOP focusing on policy and ignoring the culture war. It's not working you guys. A politician's job right now is to FIGHT, not to make policy proposals and ignore the fight entirely. Fighting means taking the other party on ON THEIR PLATFORMS (Fox, OANN, Newsmax, etc.). If you're not willing to fight the away game on the other guy's turf then good luck getting the other guy's voters to stay home or to change their mind. You let them win the information war by never fighting them on their own informational turf.
No one person has done more to damage the standing of the U.S. Senate and to undermine democracy than Mitch McConnell. No one has done more to elevate partisanship over country than he has.
Of course he lives his life without a 'moral red line.' That would only get in the way. Imagine how much easier life would be without having to bother with pesky things like ethics and consistency. To say nothing of honor, duty and country. Tossing those things off allows you to operate without worrying about consequences. And let's face it, McConnell has been operating this way since long before Donald Trump waddled onto the scene.
Mitch McConnell hasn't changed in twenty years and isn't likely to. If people who were formerly on his side have finally seen the damage he's doing and are alarmed by it, good. Welcome to the fight.
Regarding the Swan interview of McConnel,What a surgeon Swan is! And Mitch never saw it coming!Swan is Mike Wallace times ten.How I wish Swan would moderate a presidential debate. *Dave Y
Umm......that door with the flashing red light and blaring ahooga horn over it? That was opened way back in 2016 but only a handful of screaming, sane GOP voters ran full tilt boogie from the face-melting fascist fire. Alas, there were very few mentally sound anyway and those that chose to remain decided to become full-blown demagogues lusting for that perfume of power. (See Cotton, Cruz, DeSantis and about 155,832 more) I wish not-my-GOP commentators would face reality. Succumb to facts. Their party, their morality, their Ronald Regan are all dead. Buried. Gone. Never to return. As for the real and here now GQP?
About Allyn Gibson the owner of that bakery according to News 5 Cleveland:
“ In April of 2016, Allyn D. Gibson posted on one friend’s wall, “not my fault most black ppl around my area suck.”
Less than four months before the 2016 incident, Allyn D. Gibson posted his frustration over being called racist saying, “if these lazy ***** want to start working then they could earn their own money. That’s what my family does for money… work.”
This guy is a HUGE racist. The only other people reporting on this story are far right wing websites like the Daily Wire, yet Bulwark wanted to give platform to this Grade A culture war piece.
When McConnell made the R’s driving force the denial of a 2nd term for Obama he gave up the ghost. The man is an amoral power broker with no regard for lives of people with little power. He has not been anything other than that for decades.
It's the media that is in charge of the country. Especially totalitarian commentators all over the place who started the nonsense about CRT and "Mexicans charging the border", and "masks are the same as the Star of David" nonsense. It gets repeated over and over. I'm astounded by what I read on the RCP website that calls Democrats communist, fascists athiests coming for your children, guns, churches. It's really crazy and very scary. I'm not afraid; I'm old. white and comfortable. I have kids, though, that need to make it in this world, and I fear for them.
10 years ago I hated listening to Charlie Sykes on TV or reading his articles. But I did, in a constant attempt to challenge myself and prove myself wrong. Now, I rarely ever miss a podcast and his writings help me digest the insanity of our times. There are 2 types of people. Those that challenge their thought patterns and realize that complexities not seen are possible. And those that challenge their thought processes zero and are locked into running their lives with entrenched beliefs out of security. So did I move closer to Charlie's world or did he move closer to mine?
Question. You cite Virginia as being a case where Dems didn't move to the center. But in Virginia, they literally nominated a centrist candidate. They nominated the most centrist candidate that you could possibly find. And he lost. You can't be like 'actually the centrist was a socialist all along' when there's no evidence of that. It would be like claiming that Hillary lost in 2016 because she was too much like Bernie. It's nonsense.
The other question is this: what exactly is the thesis here? That Democrats need to focus more on kitchen table issues? Well if that's the case the people holding things up are not liberals but moderates like Manchin who refuse to vote on anything. He's the guy who let the Tax Credit expire, remember? Not liberals, but moderates.
It's also worth noting that poll wise, voters prefer the GOP on the child tax credit despite the fact that they oppose it, which tells you that the voters are not responding to policy, and that outcomes are not being driven based on what is actually happening. But we already knew that, because every GOP president since Reagan has crashed the economy before he left office, and every Democratic president has righted the ship, only for voters to think the GOP are fiscally responsible.
You can yell all about 'moving to the center' but you have no cases where this resulted in anything good or successful.
There are days I'm on the JVL side of the "Dems Must Move to the Center" debate (i.e. they are already there and it ain't helping) and others where I come down on Charlie's side (i.e. the Dems must occupy--and never leave!--the center). After hearing both sides, I feel like both are correct: the Dems must be centrists (left/right it doesn't matter) and they are screwed anyway (party in power always looses midterms).
What I think we all can agree on is the Democratic Party messaging sucks all the butts. Its painfully apparent that people both gifted in the arts of communication and well-trained in its use, like Tim Miller and Sara Longwell, should be running messaging for liberal-to-moderate Dems. What is truly agonizing , however, is so many Bulwark+ readers seem better at comms than the Democratic Party! Dems have a mortal lock on college educated liberals. That's it. They are softening in working-class minorities (working-class whites are all but a lost cause) and Romney type Republicans (i.e. Red Dogs). To be competitive, never mind win, the Democrats need to turn out a racially, politically, and socio-economically diverse coalition. The messaging, and policies, need to reflect this.
While it would be deeply emotionally satisfying to see the Democrats play as dirty at the GOP and tag every member of that party with Anti-Semitic MTG, Groomer Gaetz, SS Gozar, and the usual suspect pseudo-fascists, that doesn't seem to work on people willing to vote D but also not unwilling to vote R. One policy example the Democrats should own is education. The entire Democratic coalition cares deeply about schools. The GOP--by banning books, discussion, and hamstringing teachers--is literally making America's children dull morons. The Democrats can avoid CRT and focus on improving schools (yes, testing is necessary), modernizing facilities, and partnering with business (small and large) for internships. Most voters who are "gettable" by the Democrats--that are not part of their base--may be uncomfortable with CRT or whatever, but they are *DEFINITELY* going to be unhappy if they feel their kids are attending crap schools. Paint the GOP as the know-nothing party. At least go on the offensive! Ugh... sorry for the rant.
As a voter in NJ (for Corey Booker, Mikie Sherrill and the like) can we perhaps think that Dems are really not all that far left. But that the GOP (abetted by a lazy press) has stamped every Democrat with the AOC extremist stamp.
The problem for moderates - and most Dems are - is that they are fighting uphill against utter bullshit. And the lie get repeated by everyone, from Mitch McConnell to MTG.
I am not saying that the left wing talking heads are not extreme, many are. But so are folks in the right wing press. But the Democrats have not created an alternative media to get an angry message out.
By the way, the large spending bill that was defeated was not leftist - just expensive.
Why the Dems have to move to the center, Chapter 18,898---
This is probably the most tiresome song getting played over and over again on "The Bulwark".
In the first place it is already too late to tack FURTHER to the center in any convincing manner. The entire Biden agenda that has so far passed in Congress is almost entirely centrist... and yet no matter how often this is pointed out it isn't enough to overcome the creeping socialism canard.
The culture war issues being battled are mostly state and local issues--- and if leftists in Portland are somehow the problem of moderate Democrats in Virginia there is nothing to be done.
In the second place it really doesn't matter--- Democrats could go to the center right of Joe Manchin and they would still be misrepresented as communists, socialists, baby eating transgender lesbians by the GOP and half the country has already accepted that as true.
So the ONLY issue that needs to be decided is whether or not this country remains a democracy or becomes Hungary and Poland. IF white suburban voters are more concerned about inflation than preserving democracy then LET them vote Republican.
Give them the government they deserve.
Dem problem is not insufficient policy centrism. Majority of Dem supporters I know are centrist to just a bit leftward. No amount of policy moderation will make any difference. The problems are (a) politically incompetent leadership that is too beholden to hard-liberal major donors, (b) excessive media attention to bright-shiny-object backbenchers like AOC who represent party fringes, (c) inability to forcefully articulate longtime shared community values, and (d) the ability of the right-wing-noise-machine to absolutely dominate agenda-setting. The complicity of the mainstream media in the RWNM's painting the Squad as the party leadership is breathtaking.
The whole move to the center thing is getting super tiresome... the actual centrist party of the country (the one without the whacko conspiracy theorists and election-deniers and fascist-wanna-be's) needs to move the where they pretty much already are?
As JVL has noted, it isn't policy that is deciding the midterms. The Democrats are the party of actual sanity (despite the rhetoric that you sometimes get from it's own subset of whackos--who strangely rarely seem to get what they want)--but people won't vote for them because of Identity or BS reasons cooked up to make it look like they are not voting identity.
Nobody ACTAULLY cares about results (else the Democrats would be walking all over the GoP), they only really care about their grievances, anger, and fear.
Give us a break, eh? I mean I am not and never have been a Democrat and even I am tired of this.
What is so bad about Justice KBJ that would make these Republicans walk out during this ceremony? Why are they so mad, with their 6-3 majority intact no matter what? Why try to outdo one another in performative scumbaggery like this? It's really hard to see the good in my fellow Americans who vote for this kind of trash, because they hate Democrats so much more for some reason.
Republicans' actions are a reflection of what they think their voters want. They show disrespect because they think their base will reward them for it. They have no policy because they think their voters have no interest in it. They are right about both. Democrats need to point the following out to Republican voters: Republicans behave like assholes because they think you are a bunch of people whom mom didn't raise right. Republicans have no agenda because they think you are too unserious and dim to comprehend or engage in political discussion. Republicans treat you like children, and it's time to wake up to that fact. Calling half of Trump voters a basket of deplorables feels pretty good, and it's hard for me to argue its accuracy, but it's very counterproductive, as 2016 showed. Democrats need to run some sort of campaign strategy that will red pill these Republican voters who are constantly disrespected by their representatives, and taken for marks and idiots. Republicans will say anything to their voters, because they think they'll believe it.
The center is not fixed. Charlie and company are advocating for the Dems to be to the right HW and Dick Nixon on some issues. That's not how you win elections
Dems think "moving to the center" translates to "ignore the culture war, focus on policy issues" instead of "move to the center on culture war issues, hammer the other party with voter wedges that center around moral ineptitude." By ignoring the culture wars, by ignoring the necessity to message on *everything always*, by focusing on policy fights over the national identity fight, the dems are basically giving the GOP their mid-term gains on a silver platter. And FOR GODS SAKE get rid of all the old politicians with 20 years of legislative baggage who couldn't message if their lives depended on it and start building a deep bench of young fighters. STOP focusing on policy and ignoring the culture war. It's not working you guys. A politician's job right now is to FIGHT, not to make policy proposals and ignore the fight entirely. Fighting means taking the other party on ON THEIR PLATFORMS (Fox, OANN, Newsmax, etc.). If you're not willing to fight the away game on the other guy's turf then good luck getting the other guy's voters to stay home or to change their mind. You let them win the information war by never fighting them on their own informational turf.
No one person has done more to damage the standing of the U.S. Senate and to undermine democracy than Mitch McConnell. No one has done more to elevate partisanship over country than he has.
Of course he lives his life without a 'moral red line.' That would only get in the way. Imagine how much easier life would be without having to bother with pesky things like ethics and consistency. To say nothing of honor, duty and country. Tossing those things off allows you to operate without worrying about consequences. And let's face it, McConnell has been operating this way since long before Donald Trump waddled onto the scene.
Mitch McConnell hasn't changed in twenty years and isn't likely to. If people who were formerly on his side have finally seen the damage he's doing and are alarmed by it, good. Welcome to the fight.
Regarding the Swan interview of McConnel,What a surgeon Swan is! And Mitch never saw it coming!Swan is Mike Wallace times ten.How I wish Swan would moderate a presidential debate. *Dave Y
"Sane Republicans are heading for the exits"
Umm......that door with the flashing red light and blaring ahooga horn over it? That was opened way back in 2016 but only a handful of screaming, sane GOP voters ran full tilt boogie from the face-melting fascist fire. Alas, there were very few mentally sound anyway and those that chose to remain decided to become full-blown demagogues lusting for that perfume of power. (See Cotton, Cruz, DeSantis and about 155,832 more) I wish not-my-GOP commentators would face reality. Succumb to facts. Their party, their morality, their Ronald Regan are all dead. Buried. Gone. Never to return. As for the real and here now GQP?
Totally totalitarian. And loving it.
About Allyn Gibson the owner of that bakery according to News 5 Cleveland:
“ In April of 2016, Allyn D. Gibson posted on one friend’s wall, “not my fault most black ppl around my area suck.”
Less than four months before the 2016 incident, Allyn D. Gibson posted his frustration over being called racist saying, “if these lazy ***** want to start working then they could earn their own money. That’s what my family does for money… work.”
https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-lorain/judge-unseals-new-evidence-in-gibson-bakery-lawsuit-against-oberlin-college
This guy is a HUGE racist. The only other people reporting on this story are far right wing websites like the Daily Wire, yet Bulwark wanted to give platform to this Grade A culture war piece.
When McConnell made the R’s driving force the denial of a 2nd term for Obama he gave up the ghost. The man is an amoral power broker with no regard for lives of people with little power. He has not been anything other than that for decades.
It's the media that is in charge of the country. Especially totalitarian commentators all over the place who started the nonsense about CRT and "Mexicans charging the border", and "masks are the same as the Star of David" nonsense. It gets repeated over and over. I'm astounded by what I read on the RCP website that calls Democrats communist, fascists athiests coming for your children, guns, churches. It's really crazy and very scary. I'm not afraid; I'm old. white and comfortable. I have kids, though, that need to make it in this world, and I fear for them.
10 years ago I hated listening to Charlie Sykes on TV or reading his articles. But I did, in a constant attempt to challenge myself and prove myself wrong. Now, I rarely ever miss a podcast and his writings help me digest the insanity of our times. There are 2 types of people. Those that challenge their thought patterns and realize that complexities not seen are possible. And those that challenge their thought processes zero and are locked into running their lives with entrenched beliefs out of security. So did I move closer to Charlie's world or did he move closer to mine?
Question. You cite Virginia as being a case where Dems didn't move to the center. But in Virginia, they literally nominated a centrist candidate. They nominated the most centrist candidate that you could possibly find. And he lost. You can't be like 'actually the centrist was a socialist all along' when there's no evidence of that. It would be like claiming that Hillary lost in 2016 because she was too much like Bernie. It's nonsense.
The other question is this: what exactly is the thesis here? That Democrats need to focus more on kitchen table issues? Well if that's the case the people holding things up are not liberals but moderates like Manchin who refuse to vote on anything. He's the guy who let the Tax Credit expire, remember? Not liberals, but moderates.
It's also worth noting that poll wise, voters prefer the GOP on the child tax credit despite the fact that they oppose it, which tells you that the voters are not responding to policy, and that outcomes are not being driven based on what is actually happening. But we already knew that, because every GOP president since Reagan has crashed the economy before he left office, and every Democratic president has righted the ship, only for voters to think the GOP are fiscally responsible.
You can yell all about 'moving to the center' but you have no cases where this resulted in anything good or successful.
There are days I'm on the JVL side of the "Dems Must Move to the Center" debate (i.e. they are already there and it ain't helping) and others where I come down on Charlie's side (i.e. the Dems must occupy--and never leave!--the center). After hearing both sides, I feel like both are correct: the Dems must be centrists (left/right it doesn't matter) and they are screwed anyway (party in power always looses midterms).
What I think we all can agree on is the Democratic Party messaging sucks all the butts. Its painfully apparent that people both gifted in the arts of communication and well-trained in its use, like Tim Miller and Sara Longwell, should be running messaging for liberal-to-moderate Dems. What is truly agonizing , however, is so many Bulwark+ readers seem better at comms than the Democratic Party! Dems have a mortal lock on college educated liberals. That's it. They are softening in working-class minorities (working-class whites are all but a lost cause) and Romney type Republicans (i.e. Red Dogs). To be competitive, never mind win, the Democrats need to turn out a racially, politically, and socio-economically diverse coalition. The messaging, and policies, need to reflect this.
While it would be deeply emotionally satisfying to see the Democrats play as dirty at the GOP and tag every member of that party with Anti-Semitic MTG, Groomer Gaetz, SS Gozar, and the usual suspect pseudo-fascists, that doesn't seem to work on people willing to vote D but also not unwilling to vote R. One policy example the Democrats should own is education. The entire Democratic coalition cares deeply about schools. The GOP--by banning books, discussion, and hamstringing teachers--is literally making America's children dull morons. The Democrats can avoid CRT and focus on improving schools (yes, testing is necessary), modernizing facilities, and partnering with business (small and large) for internships. Most voters who are "gettable" by the Democrats--that are not part of their base--may be uncomfortable with CRT or whatever, but they are *DEFINITELY* going to be unhappy if they feel their kids are attending crap schools. Paint the GOP as the know-nothing party. At least go on the offensive! Ugh... sorry for the rant.
As a voter in NJ (for Corey Booker, Mikie Sherrill and the like) can we perhaps think that Dems are really not all that far left. But that the GOP (abetted by a lazy press) has stamped every Democrat with the AOC extremist stamp.
The problem for moderates - and most Dems are - is that they are fighting uphill against utter bullshit. And the lie get repeated by everyone, from Mitch McConnell to MTG.
I am not saying that the left wing talking heads are not extreme, many are. But so are folks in the right wing press. But the Democrats have not created an alternative media to get an angry message out.
By the way, the large spending bill that was defeated was not leftist - just expensive.