I hope you do. I've learned so much about her and about both our US and world history during her lifetime. It's a lot to absorb, but it is really worth it!
I appreciate your view; thanks for sharing it. I am no doubt older than you and a more than a bit cynical and I believe any celebrity succombs to some arrogance, almost by definition. In this case, my remark comes from her going to Russia, not an ally of her home land, at the time Russia was starting WWIII level aggression on a neighbor, and carrying a vape pen (which I believe she admitted) either without knowing or without caring that it was illegal in Russia. And I assume she was there to promote Russia in some way, sports maybe or education? She may have been set up but she was a willing partner in it, imho. It has nothing to do with kneeling. Did she deserve what she got? Of course not. Does the world deserve what it is going to get from our releasing Bout? Absolutely not! This is a dangerous world. And people need to think through, and being willing to accept, the possible consequences of their choices and actions. And while it's lovely for her and her family, surely there are those who are NOT celebrities who are just as, or more, deserving of saving. Like most things, it's complicated. (What is Whelan's "bad conduct history"? I haven't heard anything of that sort.
I completely agree with you. Self-serving is not the kind of independent thinking we need. I've just embarked on Volume III of Blanche Wiesen Cook's biography of Eleanor Roosevelt. Now there was a woman with conviction, a generous spirit, imagination, and spirit. That's the kind of independent thinking we could use right now.
All for a centrist coalition to be honest, I just worry about the staying power of such a thing. I get frustrated by Sinema too but I also get where she might be coming from and she has honestly been good on a lot of important issues. I think people lose sight of that when dragging her alot.
So, let's say that 10 "secure" centrist Senators declared an "independent" caucus and stepped away from their previous party affiliations. They could not bring any bills to the floor. They might break a few "silent" filibusters, a good thing. The pressure on them from their prior parties would be extreme, especially during primary season. I suspect the net effect could well be greater Congressional dysfunction, which the voters would not reward.
As for Sen. Sinema, she's making the only choice that gives her any chance of re-election. More likely, her candidacy will subtract from the D or R nominee in 2024, depending on who's nominated. And she will become a footnote to political history.
I am intrigued by politicians considering to run/govern as independents. Charlie suggests an"independent caucus that might include Sinema, Romney, King, Manchin, Murkowski, and someone else." I don't think many would be needed, but does this offer moderates from both sides more support for a more centrist approach and compromise? I thought that there was already this kind of caucus. If so, this kind of move might give them more of a voice. Presumption, of course, is that they would be able to work together themselves.
I have to say, as a Moderate Dem, that we have our crazies but they aren’t really in the Senate, and they are vastly outnumbered by crazies on the GOP side. Her “both sides do it” isn’t really apt.
I read Sinema's words in the AZ paper. I agree with a lot of them. I do not think SHE believes them, however. I did not see her supporting Arizona or its citizens, or Democrats or her voters. She has always seemed self-interested and transactional, beholden to monied interests rather than the People's interests, of any ilk. And she has never apparently understood that she was SUPPOSED to represent the people and state of AZ; not her own views and certainly not her own interests to their exclusion. The "rigid partisanship," by the way, is present in no small measure BECAUSE elected officials put themselves and their interests ahead of everyone and everything else. NOBODY "fits perfectly in either party" IMHO. But elected officials should HONOR and RESPECT those who put them into office and the oath of office they take as well as the promises they make.
Sinema now joins Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Arlen Spector in taking time and energy and lots of money from their party and their voters and then spitting in the face of every single voter who ever voted for her. That is what I call BETRAYAL. For me, it disqualifies her. (Of course it will make the GOP adore her, so Dems need to shut their mouths, grin and bear it, and pray to heaven Sinema doesn't change her path AGAIN for the next two years. Because if she DOES, Dems have LOST. Right or wrong. Like it or not. )
Last point: There IS another way to look at Sinema's betrayal: Perhaps she would not have done this so soon if Warnock had lost so her Dem vote would have been needed. Still maybe ugly. But maybe not quite so ugly looking at it that way. She waited until Warnock won to do it.
All this being said, one wonders why Sinema has gone into politics since she has never been anything but a spoiler who has harmed the party and the people of AZ and the country and the democratic process itself. (Of course that's just my view.) Maybe, as with today's GOP, the harm IS the point! How sad!
I too am sick to death of loudmouths grabbing all the attention and I think she has a point here. I'll leave it at that for today. We need a congress to accomplish things, not just grab the spotlight and headlines. It's often frustrating, boring work and you don't always get your way, but it needs to be done. We need some independent thinking whatever party we are (or are not ) with.
My guess is if Walker had won in GA, Sinema would have become of full blown member of the GOP so she could keep Mitch on her leash since she can't yank Shumer's leash anymore.
I feel bad for average Arizonans who are tired of the rest of the nation increasingly rolling their eyes at their state, for showing up far too often in our news feeds about wacko politicians, oddball politics, and electoral craziness. Someone please tell the loons that the state's image is taking a big hit among those who haven't been there and don't know much about it, including a lot of potential tourists and business investors.
Hi Libby,
I hope you do. I've learned so much about her and about both our US and world history during her lifetime. It's a lot to absorb, but it is really worth it!
Cheers. Susan
I appreciate your view; thanks for sharing it. I am no doubt older than you and a more than a bit cynical and I believe any celebrity succombs to some arrogance, almost by definition. In this case, my remark comes from her going to Russia, not an ally of her home land, at the time Russia was starting WWIII level aggression on a neighbor, and carrying a vape pen (which I believe she admitted) either without knowing or without caring that it was illegal in Russia. And I assume she was there to promote Russia in some way, sports maybe or education? She may have been set up but she was a willing partner in it, imho. It has nothing to do with kneeling. Did she deserve what she got? Of course not. Does the world deserve what it is going to get from our releasing Bout? Absolutely not! This is a dangerous world. And people need to think through, and being willing to accept, the possible consequences of their choices and actions. And while it's lovely for her and her family, surely there are those who are NOT celebrities who are just as, or more, deserving of saving. Like most things, it's complicated. (What is Whelan's "bad conduct history"? I haven't heard anything of that sort.
I completely agree with you. Self-serving is not the kind of independent thinking we need. I've just embarked on Volume III of Blanche Wiesen Cook's biography of Eleanor Roosevelt. Now there was a woman with conviction, a generous spirit, imagination, and spirit. That's the kind of independent thinking we could use right now.
How much of her behaviour is a function of her Aspergers I wonder? You have to factor things like that into the equation.
Have a wonderful holiday, Charlie and enjoy much-needed rest!
All for a centrist coalition to be honest, I just worry about the staying power of such a thing. I get frustrated by Sinema too but I also get where she might be coming from and she has honestly been good on a lot of important issues. I think people lose sight of that when dragging her alot.
So, let's say that 10 "secure" centrist Senators declared an "independent" caucus and stepped away from their previous party affiliations. They could not bring any bills to the floor. They might break a few "silent" filibusters, a good thing. The pressure on them from their prior parties would be extreme, especially during primary season. I suspect the net effect could well be greater Congressional dysfunction, which the voters would not reward.
As for Sen. Sinema, she's making the only choice that gives her any chance of re-election. More likely, her candidacy will subtract from the D or R nominee in 2024, depending on who's nominated. And she will become a footnote to political history.
I am intrigued by politicians considering to run/govern as independents. Charlie suggests an"independent caucus that might include Sinema, Romney, King, Manchin, Murkowski, and someone else." I don't think many would be needed, but does this offer moderates from both sides more support for a more centrist approach and compromise? I thought that there was already this kind of caucus. If so, this kind of move might give them more of a voice. Presumption, of course, is that they would be able to work together themselves.
I thought they went out of business! Are you sure you weren’t scammed? Did a Nigerian prince deliver the package?
I have to say, as a Moderate Dem, that we have our crazies but they aren’t really in the Senate, and they are vastly outnumbered by crazies on the GOP side. Her “both sides do it” isn’t really apt.
I read Sinema's words in the AZ paper. I agree with a lot of them. I do not think SHE believes them, however. I did not see her supporting Arizona or its citizens, or Democrats or her voters. She has always seemed self-interested and transactional, beholden to monied interests rather than the People's interests, of any ilk. And she has never apparently understood that she was SUPPOSED to represent the people and state of AZ; not her own views and certainly not her own interests to their exclusion. The "rigid partisanship," by the way, is present in no small measure BECAUSE elected officials put themselves and their interests ahead of everyone and everything else. NOBODY "fits perfectly in either party" IMHO. But elected officials should HONOR and RESPECT those who put them into office and the oath of office they take as well as the promises they make.
Sinema now joins Ben Nighthorse Campbell and Arlen Spector in taking time and energy and lots of money from their party and their voters and then spitting in the face of every single voter who ever voted for her. That is what I call BETRAYAL. For me, it disqualifies her. (Of course it will make the GOP adore her, so Dems need to shut their mouths, grin and bear it, and pray to heaven Sinema doesn't change her path AGAIN for the next two years. Because if she DOES, Dems have LOST. Right or wrong. Like it or not. )
Last point: There IS another way to look at Sinema's betrayal: Perhaps she would not have done this so soon if Warnock had lost so her Dem vote would have been needed. Still maybe ugly. But maybe not quite so ugly looking at it that way. She waited until Warnock won to do it.
All this being said, one wonders why Sinema has gone into politics since she has never been anything but a spoiler who has harmed the party and the people of AZ and the country and the democratic process itself. (Of course that's just my view.) Maybe, as with today's GOP, the harm IS the point! How sad!
I too am sick to death of loudmouths grabbing all the attention and I think she has a point here. I'll leave it at that for today. We need a congress to accomplish things, not just grab the spotlight and headlines. It's often frustrating, boring work and you don't always get your way, but it needs to be done. We need some independent thinking whatever party we are (or are not ) with.
So are exit polls stating that Herschel Walker pissed off the vampire vote?
My guess is if Walker had won in GA, Sinema would have become of full blown member of the GOP so she could keep Mitch on her leash since she can't yank Shumer's leash anymore.
I feel bad for average Arizonans who are tired of the rest of the nation increasingly rolling their eyes at their state, for showing up far too often in our news feeds about wacko politicians, oddball politics, and electoral craziness. Someone please tell the loons that the state's image is taking a big hit among those who haven't been there and don't know much about it, including a lot of potential tourists and business investors.
You are THE BEST. Have a wonderful holiday.